Theme: Do men and women face different challenges on the journey of awakening ?
M: Good morning, good midday, good afternoon, everyone. This is the first time we try a 3-way conversation. I have also invited Geli. Unfortunatlely I have mixed up times and have to leave in 3/4 of an hour. Geli will take over from me.
R: Time is funny like that. No matter what we think or do, in the forum and interacting with our world, time is something that does come into play. ***smile*** Hello!
M: Hello – just waiting for Sheila….she should be here soon. I had to send
her the link again.
A: Hello Ros, how are you doing?
R: I’ll go with doing well. Very quiet morning.
M: Hi Sheila. This is too funny – all 4 of us can interact at the same time…
S: Here I am!
M: Oh, perfect. Sorry – somehow this was a little bit of a mess. 🙂 . We are all learning to do this. Anyway – welcome, all of you. Randy, Sheila in the US and here it is Michaela and Geli in Central Europe. So…shall we start ?
S: Yes, but I’m drawing a blank…lol
R: With the question posed above then I have one question to begin with: Just getting on the same page, not caring what that page is right now, what do we mean by awakening?
M: Good question. Maybe each of us can put down their own definition ? I’ll make a start: What I call awakening, is the ongoing process of recognising who we really are – so not just this rather limited human form, but that we are at all times connected to the formless.
S: Yes, Awakening for me is waking up from the dream…the reality that we thought was true in this human form and realizing we are so much more…..
R: Maybe this is the beginning of the difference. ***smile*** I see things as simple, with little thinking behind it, i.e. just recognizing. Awakening to me is understanding that the life in me is the same as the life in everything. This is no individualism. Then everything flows from that.
A: The meaning of “awakening” for me has been changing within the last 14 months. Right now it means to observe what is happening within me in each moment I have not felt back into a trance. I experience resistance, joy, anger, and so on and for the first time in my life I do no longer compensate this sensations or run away from them. I simply stay with them and observe what happens. The more I do this, the calmer I become. Right now I awaken to my ego structures…lol.
M: Well, even tough we are using different words, maybe we can agree that awakening is a process, without a distinct beginning or end, that reveals our true nature and the laws of the universe to us, and that is – probably first and foremost in the beginning – a journey of self-discovery. Who we are as opposed to what we think we are. Do you agree ?
R: Forgive me but I, the little i, see it just a little different. Hard to type but will try. Go back to the word simple. When I woke up to life, to no individualism, the fact that we are all the same we share life with all I haven’t gone back to debate that or try to understand more about that. It is what it is to me, otherwise I don’t see a process (in me). It is what it is. Now cultivating that understanding and growing in that is where we may be saying the same thing?
M: I think we are right on our topic already…lol. I can see what you mean, Randy – it is just the realisation, that all is One. And you are right, this is what it is and this is who we are. Is this what you are saying ?
R: Somewhat. The “who” we are maybe a little different, but I don’t really think so. I don’t see a “who” in me. I see a what in me, and that what is just a fragment of the One. Is this what you mean? x
M: Yes, it is and I think we have already stumbled on an apparent distinction. I know what you mean, but I actually do feel a “process” (in lack of another word) unfolding. So let’s see what Sheila has to say about it ?
S: Well, as I listen to Randy I can see the word ‘simple’ is an accurate description when it comes to the differences between men and women. And I don’t mean that in a derogatory way. I find this simplicity to help me in terms of staying grounded. (sort of rambling here)
But I do have a question for Randy…..how does this understanding (awakening) show up in your life with your relationships in general?
R: Kinda right out there in the open. I don’t really feel that I can be agree anymore, frustrated yes but that’s more at what we are doing to others and the world as a society. That may sound funny, but anger is only destructive, inside and out. My wife will be the first to say that I’m too nice, I care too much. As you may have seen in other postings I’ve wrote I believe one of our main objectives in this life is to get out and touch anyone and everyone you can. I love volunteering, I love teaching troubled kids, I love visiting the nursing home and talking to the people there that have little communication with others. I love this life.
S: When your wife says you are too nice, care too much………why? How can that be? I mean, there must be something to it……..when our partners make statements about us.
A: Go ahead Ros, if you want to
R: I feel that she believes that you have to take on the hurt of others when you care so much. That being nice or caring means that you “feel” their suffering and that can weigh on you.
A: When our beloved ones say something about us, we can differentiate if they state a fact or give an interpretation of our actions or make an educated guess.
A fact is a fact. An interpretation is always a projection of something within them on to us.
An educated guess is also a projection of something within them on to us.
In your case Ros, it would help if she could specify what she means when she says you are too nice.
Empathy does not mean to take over the pain of somebody else. We only resonate with pain of others, if pain is still in our system. Otherwise we feel compassion. This is not pain.
R: This where I’ll smile while I write. My wife and I talk about everything, so we have discussed this in depth. So I’ve come to terms that it is just a girl thing. (remember I’m smiling) I can easily reach out and touch someone with all my heart and love and not take on the pain they have, she cannot. I don’t feel the same about pain as some do, maybe because I’ve been through so much that it is just something that happens and you have to look past it, or rather accept it for what it was (or is).
Yes Geli, you hit it for me. It is compassion, not empathy.
S: So you do not believe you are too nice…that is what I was wondering about. BTW, I’m so grateful for people who volunteer and visit the elderly. My dad lives with my sister and her family now, but when he was in a senior living home there were so many sad and lonely looking people there. They always seemed shocked when someone would make eye contact and say hello and make small talk.
As far as the differences go, in some ways, it does seem easier for men in terms of compassion. I understand your smiling about the girl thing. Part of my awakening is actually allowing me to keep it more simple (detach if you will). I suffer less when I see others suffering. And although I was taught this was ‘cold’ what it actually is doing for me is making me more compassionate and ‘able’ to help……I feel Love growing inside. The opposite of my former reality.x
R: Your observations are on target. Life deals out so much and to so many, some suffering so pleasure, trying to understand that or take on that only can cause suffering in oneself. But you can, as life itself, give out Love and Compassion in abundance. You can make a difference without taking on suffering of others. And, no I do not feel I’m too nice or too caring, but I’m sure working on it! ***smile***
A: I want to point out once again, …we function like tuning forks….so when somebody responds to experiencing suffering in Others, with suffering her/himself, it is a great opportunity to heal it within him/herself. I am talking very general now, since I do not know any of you….so please understand that this here is not meant as an specific answer to any of you.
It is very important that each one of us goes through transformation. Only then our actions will no longer be compositional or survival strategies but genuine. When we meet Others we exchange with them on many “levels” without words and gestures and the intent behind our actions brings healing to Others. Look at Eckhart Tolle, it does not really matter what he says, it is what comes despite or besides the words, that heals us.
S: Yes, Geli. I will look at these times (feeling the pain of others) with more awareness and an opportunity to heal within first. I didn’t really look at it this way before. thank you. xo
oh ……that was actually a hug and kiss. lol I have a question for Randy.
Do you have any insights on how a woman might……..hmmmm……..let me rephrase. How would you open the door to another man, in terms of seeing this connection of all Life?
R: Great question. (sorry I just hit a button that threw me right out) It’s the exact same as I would with anyone. I stopped hiding my feelings a couple of decades ago, maybe just a little at work but I’m turning that around as well. What I can do with other guy friends is challenge them a little more to change and get involved. I will admit though, this type of conversation is hard with many men, or lets say men that are not awaken to life in general, so I keep it at the challenge phase.
Comment to Geli’s previous post. Exchange on many levels, yes you hit it. We actually exchange life with the life around us. I don’t see life as standing still or “in” us, I see it as what this form is in (not the other way around). It flows, Life is not stagnant. And I don’t see transformation as much as I see realization.
A: It does not matter what words we use. And Ros, I am German, so it is a little harder for me to express things in English. Life is within all that is. Also within our ego / personalities. At the level of ego Life is not really aware of itself. This is why we have on Earth what we do….When I use the word transformation I am referring always to ego identifications ( or however you want to call the little self). In alchemy they use the terms….Lead into Gold. This is what I mean. Allowing Life to enter deeply into ego structures does bring realisation and “refinement” to us as human beings.
I would like to say something to Sheila and her question to you Ros. May I?
S: Of course……
A: Several mystic traditions (Sufi, LILA – Hindu…any many more) have written about “Women being the activator for men´s awakening.”
If you want to we can talk about this at another time.
In my personal experience it was that I could not ask a man to share the path of awakening or ask him to join me. The man has to be open and willing to go along. When my husband, and he had a lot of time to contemplate on joining me, more than 10 years, finally decided not to join, I met Paul. He and I are like learning together about conscious relationship and the more we walk on this path together, the more open each one of us becomes, the deeper our connection gets.
Everything is changing….including sex…lol.
S: Hmmm, an activator in men’s awakening. Yes, I guess that is what I would like to be for my husband. lol I laugh because that does seem to be a little egoic.
To be honest I don’t really want (need) him to be on the same page as me……..it’s more like, when he says or does something that is (in my opinion) very unconscious (racial slur for example) I would like to be able to bring some awareness in him at that moment. I use to get upset and walk away, (suffered). Now I don’t suffer about it, I just sit still and become very Present….I don’t say anything. But sometimes I want to feel like I’m doing more.
I would like to continue but the morning is going by and my dog and husband are waiting for me to join them. Maybe another time?
A: Sure. Let Michaela or me know, ok? And enjoy your day! Here it is almost eight o´clock at night and it turned dark already. Thank you for being here!!!
R: See you Sheila. I hope we have time again, as I think we were just about to touch the surface of a very good conversation.
I would love to get into a conversation, in general, around this “ego” thing. It’s just very interesting how it has grown to be used with such a powerful meaning.
A: Let´s come back to the sofa and talk about EGO. ok? smile? For today I would like to end this coming together.
R: agree, I really didn’t mean now. I have a lot of yard work I need to jump on. Love you guys and thanks so much.
S: Yes, let’s. And Geli, your communication in English is fabulous. I am so impressed with people who can communicate in other languages…..so eloquently at that! Love you all…..until we meet again.
R: agree! 25 years ago I may have been able to converse in German a little as I had the opportunity to live your wonderful country for a couple of years. But that ability is long gone.
A: Thank you both of You!!!
And have a fine weekend! …..enjoy Life until we meet again…..and of course beyond this…lol…bye bye!!!