By Justme
After the recent ‘disaster’ in Japan there has been a lot of discussion and questioning. Some discussions have raised an ever re-appearing question ” Why has God allowed this disaster to happen? ”
There is plenty of evidence to suggest on a human level this is indeed a disaster, with thousands of human beings dead or injured. Since death is something human beings in general tend to avoid, it must be a disaster, right?
So how does one start the discussion on this subject? So many starting points, which in of itself raises further questions.
Let’s turn it around, for a second.
Imagine if you would or can, the following:
If a human wasn’t afraid of death and would rather see their role as someone who must carry out their earthly duty until they are chosen – until they die, until they get the golden ticket, then dying might not have been a tragedy.
If humans thought of death as a liberation and a true opportunity to move to a situation of their personal betterment, a positive rather than a negative, would the world not now be in celebration? Would, what we see as destruction really be called a disaster?
Of course this is just a scenario for the mind to consider.
This leads perhaps to this thought, regardless of tsunamis or earthquakes it depends on how the onlooker’s own perception is on death. If death is seen as a tragedy, then it becomes tragedy. If death is perceived as a reward, then it will be seen as exactly that. Therefore the most important aspect is the human onlooker’s own starting point. The truth about any situation lies with the one who looks, for it is within him or her, the decision on whether the scene before them is tragic or celebratory. It is based on their own starting point.
Of course there is still the scene in front of us, where human beings bodies have stopped operating, and that which seems to animate the body has left. There must be a truthful reason for that ?
Or is there another view?
What about the thoughts of the onlookers who just view the happenings and understand there are many views and thoughts. Their thoughts are no more likely to be correct than the others, and through this, they decide to just observe. What is it they find or see?
What we perhaps can say from knowledge or experience, which may be completely illusory, is that we as human beings have groped this planet for thousands of years and still we seem surprised at this thing called death. Our own minds and experience tells us that death comes to us all. Yet we still seemed shocked ? Why ? Do we want to avoid something? Why is it such a surprise that every human has to and will die? Are we afraid to talk about it? Are we the same people who created televisions, computers, the wheel, satellites and spaceships, and yet we can’t understand the one thing that has and will come to all mankind? Why is that so ?
We need to step back: So what do we think we know?
To a human mind there seems to be that which looks like the ending of that which we call person. It happens to every human being but to some they seem to have a particular ‘sudden or spectacular’ death. Mystics and philosophers, seers and scientists have placed their suggestions forward and some humans have adapted the same. So many thoughts and considering, and yet no proof. So what is left?
What do you – the person, the mind, reading this know for sure?
You know you have a body, but you never created it or cannot remember how it was created?
You can believe you have a mind which may operate through your brain, which you can believe you have? Yet that mind does not seem to be quite in any place. That mind can be aware of many things, seen and unseen.
Your eyes and that which you see through them creates that which we call images, but even when your eyes are closed, still you can be aware of yourself.
You have never been in an other’s head, therefore you know only your own mind.
Your mind decides through thought, memory, vision and the other senses, your world.
Then why is it we all see or have different opinions on what we see, or understand or do not understand that which we call our world? If all the tools of each being are more or less the same, then why do we not all end with the same conclusions about everything?
Is it that we are all individuals and each individual sees what they wish to see, according to their accumulated sense of knowledge?
Let’s go back to the question, what have we got:
A) There is the scene which shows someone dying.
B) To die is a positive experience.
C) To die is a negative experience
D) To die is something other than negative or positive, but the human mind cannot comprehend such a position because it knows only a world of opposites, negative or positive, a world of either or.
E) The scene is an illusion and never took place.
Point A seems 100% true?
Point B could be true if the human looking at the deaths see it in that way?
Point C could be true if the human looking at the deaths see it in that way?
Point D could be true because there are so many things we do not understand.
Point E could there be something we missed?
There is the individual mind of the see-er who can decide, without any true starting point or proven knowledge that the scene they see, is, for want of a better description, real (which covers point A) and depending on the person, a ‘negative’ or a ‘positive’ experience. Points B and C.
The see-er decides on what they see. The happening itself attaches no attributes of negative or positive, that decision is solely with the onlooker.
There is a truth about the scene which mankind does not understand – point D
The only other possibility not covered is the possibility the scene is illusion and has never truly taken place. What is the possibility of this scenario being true?
Is there only one mind which is yours? Everything else exists just as a dream for you?
None of the dream is real and you are making the dream up as you go along. If there is an intelligence that operates the cells in your body and beats your heart and moves your limbs before you can command them to move, then surely anything is possible and not only what we believe. Your arms and fingers and eyes operate regardless of you commanding them. Is time real ? If it is not real how could there be a progression of anything?
If this were true then what would it mean of all life and death?
For millennia human have searched the sky, the mountains and the rivers. They have watched the awe of sunrise and sunset, they have watched watched the stars dance across the darkness of the unknown space. They have calculated and tested, they have searched and searched more, some have just thrown caution to the wind and believed, through their faith.
What is it they have searched for? They have searched for themselves. They have always felt outside the circle, they have searched for the missing link. The link which will explain, who we are! If there was no such thing as God or life source that created us, how could we have ever come up with the idea of it?
So to re-organise what I have suggested, the options or answers to death are not to be found by looking at the scene, but by finding out who we are:
- We are humans who somehow inhabited this earth and we are born and will die.
- There is a reason for this.
- There is no reason for this, it just is.
- We are not humans inhabiting this earth. It is an illusion.
Earlier I mentioned the fact human beings have searched and are still searching for the answers to who we are.
I also mentioned the fact that some have offered answers and some of these answers have been accepted intellectually by humans.Evidence does show that these humans, when they accept and believe an answer, regardless of the diversity of one answer over an other, the need for answers to fundamental questions like death become less important, and the individual can display a sense of purpose.
Again this belief can attract others who drift to and fro and long for answers themselves. This does not mean any of these answers are correct. They could be as diverse as a belief in Catholicism to be the only real answer to who we are, or it could be a belief in Nazism as the answer to earth’s need for liberation.
There is another piece of evidence which the world and human beings are now after thousands of years picking up on. It is not found in the traditional way or places man has looked but has been found in individuals of no great worldly importance, it’s been found in the heart of men:
A display of inner peace, a quiet yet powerful emanating stillness which has been seen clearly displayed by individuals, or as they would say: ‘through the individual’. Anyway, this is not an individual who has latched on to another idea (there is still those who latch onto the idea but do not display the peace), but an individual who through their very being, triggers something within the onlooker or listener, which they themselves seem to recognise. Like a memory being recalled. A memory of a peaceful, fulfilled existence. If there was evidence needed as to the direction man must search, surely this is it. There could be no memory trigger if it was irrelevant?
Out of all the different beliefs and scenarios, man has thrown to the world about man’s existence, man’s life and death and the reason why, few have actually offered evidential proof. Few that is except these individuals who through their own demonstration of inner power and the fact that the listener can readily recognise the memory triggered as real and relevant to them. Not always at first, but usually once heard, it is forever recognised.
There are many questions asked about death and I have probably raised more questions. However, I suspect, you have read this to find what my answer is to the question of death and now you haven’t got that answer. Why?
My answer is not your answer.
Yes, there must be a real ‘true’ answer, but each individual must find their own answer or it would only be another mental concept, they should find it, if they need to find that answer.
The answer to death will be found in the heart of life.
Justme
NB: questions and comments welcome !
Related posts:
The Living Room 
The fear of death is what keeps us in suffering. To understand that even the most subtle movements of the ego serve resistance, to protect an erroneous idea, is the light at the end of the tunnel. We fear death, because we believe it is real. To remember who we really are, and to find out that nothing at all is like we think it is, to find out that in fact nothing of it actually happens, is the door to freedom.
Thank you.
I have not much to disagree on, but could of course, just for the craic !
So here is my question: It is my experience, that fear of death – or at least the attitude towards death – is less poignant in Asia. This does not mean that people won’t grief or suffer, but in general I have noticed a much more accepting attitude towards aging and death. However, you are saying a mere belief without connecting to the intrinsic knowing, does not create a viable foundation for peace.
What is the difference between acceptance based on a belief, as opposed to true acceptance ?
You write:
//
A) There is the scene which shows someone dying.
B) To die is a positive experience.
C) To die is a negative experience
D) To die is something other than negative or positive, but the human mind cannot comprehend such a position because it knows only a world of opposites, negative or positive, a world of either or.
E) The scene is an illusion and never took place.
//
The experience of personal death is something I can only comment on when I am dying – which will happen sooner or later. Comments on someone else’s experience would be pure speculation.
However, going beyond the individual experience we should also consider
a) children losing their parents
b) families losing their livelihoods
c) husbands losing their wives and vice versa
d) delays in education
e) possible life-long sickness due to radiation
etc.
No doubt, once these things happened the best thing is to accept it. However, do you think these should be avoided if possible? By higher walls against tsunamis, by safer designs of reactors etc.?
In general: should life be cherished and protected whenever reasonably possible? If yes for what reason?
ahhh. justme, just right
(as in ‘hits the spot’…let there be no confusion.)
i love the illustration too. is that a stairway ‘in’ heaven or ‘to’ heaven meaning, a guide to meeting the challenge of ‘life’ (from a certain perspective)?
thank you jm.
hi Marille. just can’t help but say that what appears most predominate in me, is not the fear of death per se though this statement may very well be true “The fear of death is what keeps us in suffering.” rather it is the fear of insanity.
not obviously suffering at the moment just a ‘tad melancholic’ today
thank you both,
with love, Fatima
Hi Fatima,
Glad you like the painting. It is William Blake’s Jacob’s Ladder.
I don’t like captions, so I rarely use it. But if you move the cursor over the images, you can see what it is.
Everyone seems to be melancholic in these days..have you seen the moon ?
Its full and closer to Earth than it has been in many years…
Ralph, you are correct and that is why I said everyone must find their own answer, if they need one.
On the question or comment regarding “should life be cherished and protected whenever reasonably possible? If yes for what reason?”
Who is the do-er? There is a natural and spontaneous reaction to all things regardless of what they are, eg a hot flame tells us not to place our hand in the fire. So too, humans have a natural instinct to survive as humans, perhaps to fulfil their destiny, to live out their destiny, a destiny not determined by time or space as we understand it but a destiny determined by the needs of the soul.
So there is a ‘natural’ cherishing of life, anything else is just us getting in the way.
The natural state of man, the true self is one of peace and contentment, so go forth fill the earth and conquer it, not by the mind but by the knowledge we are truly spiritual beings living a human existence, not human beings sometimes living a spiritual existence, go forth with the faith all is well and the leaf will always land exactly in the place it was meant to land.
Hi sister M
The moon. I did, I did see it earlier last night. That was after Mo saw it and posted in the forums, also as I recall referencing that astronomical situation you brought out in the living room.
very cool synchronicity.
I saw the moon, as I walked, a tad melancholy, to my car. I’m muslim i.e. I am always attracted to the moon and its phases.
It occurred to me as I looked at it for a moment and saw its fullness, how my human in all its watery form is lawfully and simply affected by it, like the tides. Not only that, it occurred to me that my human form in all its myriad trillions of forms is affected by the solar system (truth hidden in astrology) and more than that…… so it goes ….on and on ….radiating circles of form to captivate the monkey of my mind. I understood in that moment that it was all, in a way not in my control…the mood, the thoughts, the body, the reactions….none of it…..except….
the space….the space in me….space in me …the connection to God.
btw I really can understand why it appears that you find our friend jm so (it appears) insufferably irritating. It boggles the mind how he can pass from breath taking elegant eloquence and clarity to………? ? leaving big holes for ego to fall in. Makes me feel the same way, in a way. re. jm above. lol
LoL insufferably irritating…haha
Must be the Moon…
Check this out
Sorry Michaela, never seen your question. I was ignoring you. Ha
You asked “What is the difference between acceptance based on a belief, as opposed to true acceptance ?”
A belief based on the mind wanting to latch on to someone else’s belief will not stand the test. It has poor foundations.
A belief which comes from a connection triggered by a memory, because it is based on truth, holds more ‘power’ therefore it is a ‘true’ acceptance. This is not to be confused with a belief of mind for words of truth. This is based more on the individual experiencing the truth. An example of this is when someone hears the words of Et they may hear truth and have an EXPERIENCE which then opens their mind. This is true acceptance and cannot be reversed, but can be hidden. Someone else hearing the same words and wanting to believe may go through all the motions of belief but are no different than believing in any other mind opinionated belief.
Fatima do not be so hard on Justme. Hee
I so knew you were ignoring me….
Common beliefs may have poor foundations, but they can have a long half-life (this is to say a long time may pass, until anyone starts questioning them). That is the business model of religions, is it not.
So are you saying we have to make sure we learn to listen to the language of faith, that often is muffled by belief ?
Everyones concept of what ‘faith’ is or what ‘belief’ is, differs.
If someone followed a religion and they yearned for truth and they were exposed to truth and the same truth was heard, creating an experience, then it would not matter which religion or path they chose. All beliefs, religious, non religious paths can lead to truth.
When the memory is triggered by truth a person could be lying in the gutter or standing on the balcony of St Pauls Cathedral waving to a crowd. The path is their path, just because the person leaves the gutter and goes to the balcony doesn’t mean they have experienced the truth, just because the person leaves the balcony and lands in the gutter doesn’t mean they will experience the truth, although there is a better chance for the one leaving the balcony and landing in the gutter, than vice versa.
So your question Michaela “So are you saying we have to make sure we learn to listen to the language of faith, that often is muffled by belief ?”
I think we have to learn to just be. Learning to listen, listening to learn – two ends of the one stick.
The faith I talk of is a knowing, not a faith one must remind oneself of every now and then.
2 x 2 = 4 when you know this, you never need to know it again.
Fatima, sometimes we think we know someone until that someone reminds us we do not. This is for the benefit of both.
So then what you are saying – we have no control when or how or by what the memory is being triggered. That has to happen – and then, we just have to learn..to be -without belief or crutches or arm floats 😉
Yes, just be, except we don’t need the add ons of…belief, crutches and arm floats. They can be there if they want, they are irrelevant.
Arm floats look silly…
M. “That is the business model of religions, is it not.”
It is, it is …….that’s what I keep saying!
Thank you jm for the clarification.
Not only that but there is a place for that…..everything you ve been saying. The so-called good side by side with the so-called bad in the form of the sacred traditions.
……in a New Earth.
http:KaphA lolx2 it is what it is til it isn’t.
❤ and on and on til the end..(I wish I knew how Medea does that..a handy tool sometimes.)
Tea anyone ?
lol Thank God! I was hoping someone would ask.
Its been a very long day…..passed in no time. Gotta go now.
Bye
See how we interpret everything to fit our own ideas and latch on to someone else’s, as if the fact their agreement means our idea is somehow more validated.
If 99 men out if 100 agree on something, does that mean it is correct?
justme just askin
Yes, we interpret and repeat like parrots…
If people agree with you, it just means you have hit the common understanding of what is true, but not necessarily truth itself.
So the implication is that the 1 who does not agree is right then ?
Well, according to my logic, the one who disagrees is no more on to the truth than the 99 others.
Maybe its the 101st (wo)man who says: 99 agree, 1 disagrees and all see their truth. They are all right and wrong at the same time, in fact – where is the difference. There is a myriad plus ways of interpreting what I see, hear or feel. I have come to the conclusion that I do not see with my eyes, but through my eyes.
I’ll have a coffee…
Rubbish justme. That is just a dumb question preceded by a flawed assumption attached to a perfectly reasonable observation.
Get….a…..grip!
“Fatima, sometimes we think we know someone until that someone reminds us we do not. This is for the benefit of both.” Right here? After I say, to myself, “What… is…. he…. talking…. about?”
hmmm…to obvious….hmmm “I’ll say it anyway.” Of course we don’t know each other! Each of you exists as a figment of my imagination. Of course Marille’s figment looks a lot like her picture. lol On…the …other…hand we do have a real feeling connection. At least on my side…….. Maybe that is just imagination too!
If so……it would be good to know. Bring it on. Enlighten me.
Take it to the forum, please. I feel bad cluttering up the living room like this after your very high minded and relevent, containing some very excellent observations, essay.
Always a pleasure to talk to you.
(omg) love, f
Clutter on my friends…Clutter for the people
These posts live by the comments. Dont hold back….please.
Okay….although everything in me says forget it…trying to communicate is just too much work..I will ‘clutter’ on …..at your invitation M….both of you being beloved figments of my imagination.
I feel as if I have no question for justme. Maybe more like apologies. In my imagination he understands that. So…no apologies necessary…lol.
These are the questions that remain after the fog cleared. Moon effect no doubt.
Marille, I would like to start a discussion based on some of the things you’ve said here.
This explanation of justme at 8:07 pm reflects my opinion on the subject of the individual ‘s situation visa vi religion exactly. and that all religions are sacred paths.
You said at 7:42 pm, “That is the business model of religions, is it not.” And I latched on to it. My response now: Yes and is there any good in this? I think that there is.
and
“………we don’t need the add ons of…belief, crutches and arm floats. They can be there if they want, they are irrelevant.”
My response: This statement implies not only that you might be denying the possibility of the Religion as having value in society in the past, now or in the future….?
It also seems to deny the validity of the spiritual experience of millions of people who just are…..while practicing their Religion, worshiping God as they believe Him to be, and doing the best they can as their life unfolds. Ordinary beauty. I say that because you use the words, “belief, crutches and arm floats” in a dismissive way.
Can we have this discussion here?
xo
Fatima
Hi Fatima,
yes – we can !
Gladly !
Can you formulate the question for me please ? I will post (or give you access if you like, so you can post yourself) and we start the discussion…
Please send me an email and we take it from there…
Fatima, they are irrelevant in the sense- to justme, because we are all children of God and regardless of the situation or what ‘crutch’ we happen to need at any given time, it is just ‘where we are at’ and as I always said, believe, because you have felt that ‘yes’ when witnessing words or actions of truth. It is that ‘yes’ which ‘drives’ us onwards and upwards, not because of us but in spite of us. It is a memory triggered, that memory invokes that which seems to humans as the weakest in us, which is actually the strongest desire in us. The desire to find our way home.
Appreciate the read Justme! Good appreciation for and definition of death, or the thought of it. And yes, we are individuals, with shared life.
The fear of death left my thought process so long ago I can’t remember when it was there. My guess is it was because after my dad died I was raised by my Great Aunts/Uncles/Grand Parents, who there were many and the surrounding family, had me learning the facts of “death” early on. And because I was raised somewhat “country” I loved the woods, forest, lakes and the wildlife that had sanctuary there. This combination of life and death made me realize it’s all in balance just fine.
Again, love the read!
Randy
Randy, what can I say? Let everyone else see what Randy said, then ask why?
Hi, I just found this post.
When the tsunami happened in Japan, I was sad for those left behind and missing their loved ones, as well as the suffering physically and emotionally.
For those that got to move on, I thought they will get to miss all the evil in the world that may happen in the future, as well as now.
Also, I don’t feel that I can judge that it was a good or bad thing to happen. I know that I don’t see the ‘whole picture’. There is no way that I can judge what happens in this world. What needs to happen, happens.
Just some thoughts and feelings of mine.
The question of death – something I rarely think or talk about, since the experience of my own death.
With it came the experience of knowing and feeling how all things are a part of purpose, which went far deeper than any intellectual understanding I might have had before that experience.
Having had this understanding in every cell of my body, I’ve never lost the knowing of it, although I lost the experience of it slowly after being revived.
The transition was effortless, peaceful, open, joyful, natural as blossom falling, with no element of loss or looking back (and complete surprise at finding ‘myself’ back in this body, when that happened).
But yes, I found out who I am, and it doesn’t leave me…of course the duality is thick, no mistake, and I can & sometimes do forget…but never for long.
Before that experience, I was a hardened, embittered cynic and skeptic, and afterwards – some seriously challenging un-learning happened…I ‘woke’ to a world full of wonder…all my previous beliefs turned out to be wrong, and that letting go was an unexpected joy.
The fact that I was actually ‘lying in the gutter’, where someone had just tried to murder me, was irrelevant, forgiveness was contained in simple gratitude to that person for playing out their difficult part in this experience…perfectly.
What happens now, when events like those in Japan happen, and large numbers of people die, is that I honour them for their part, and I don’t fail to notice the compassion wave that their passing in this way generates into the collective energy, with gratitude.
For my own reasons.
And I also notice that I don’t ask those who just lost their loved ones to ‘be grateful’, or to feel other than they are feeling, unless that turns out to be a subject they choose to broach on their own.
And this is just the way it happens.
We are each here to experience what we experience.
And there is no need to be afraid of the depth of a thing.
That depth is what we are here to remember.
So my personal perspective is that death is neither tragedy nor reward, just a simple transition, like waking up after sleeping/dreaming, and we just move on, with very little feeling that anything significant is ‘over’…because what matters is still ‘going on’.
And God is right there, the whole time.
Nothing is overlooked, and there are no mistakes.
As you all probably already know, Eckhart’s live meditation yesterday really helped with this subject of death and Japan.
Thanks, Justme, for writing on this.
My life has been like yours, Randy.
Thanks Abitiki
Such a sincere, powerful sharing
Thank you very much
Pete
wow, Abi. That was beautiful. Thank you so much.
Thanks, Abi, for sharing your story!
My lovely Abi
Caution: objects in the mirror may be reflected larger than actual size ; – )
I wish I could comment adequately but this is all to heady stuff for me. It seems the concept that this is all just a concept is a concept. It seems Justme knows exactly what he is talking about but I don’t know what that is.
Nothing is actually happening so why do we have form lives right now? Something must need to be happening to evolve. It may move to complete nothingness eventually but right now there is still the form.
I think that having the view that death is a beautiful part of life is what we want to have and long for. I think those in this world who haven’t experienced the loss of forms in there life might have a better time embracing this. Those that have lost forms they were attached to will understand that a natural compassion will come up when seeing the same suffering in others. This is especially true the younger you were when the loss occurred and how close they were to you and how much impact they had on their life. The death of a mother for a child is quite a blow. Most children don’t have the resources to say to themselves this is all an illusion and all will be fine. For them, the life source is now gone. They have lost love, shelter, food, warmth, and stability. This sets up mental illness in later life for many people. This is a shock to the system and usually makes the child be in greater unconsciousness for a longer time than otherwise. So my reaction has been to understand the depth of loss that is being felt by those impacted and knowing that since so many are experiencing loss at the same time, the support of friends and family is severely diminished. Mine is just the understanding off the sadness and pain that is being experienced right now for them.
I know what you are saying is the truth though I am not there yet. I also know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are sharing this with us to help mitigate the pain that is being felt and for that I am deeply grateful. Thank you.
I hope to not feel the pain someday but for know, I feel it as compassion. I try to use it that way. Sometimes doing something for others helps me not feel so bad and knowing how limited I am in stopping this pain and that it is part of the evolving is what I must remind myself.
Thank you for your compassionate helping words.